Discussion:
DO NOT FORCE YOUR VIEWS ON OTHERS
(too old to reply)
Dan.B.
2004-07-15 21:23:51 UTC
Permalink
I've been reading this message board for long enough now to know that
there is a large religious community out there. I have no problem with
religion or being spiritual. I DO however have a problem with devout
religious types coming on to a philosophy forum and claiming that I
should believe in their God based on faith. This is not the place to
make claims like that. If you want to talk faith go to talk.religion.

Give me arguments. Anything that will appeal to reason or logic is
fine. Telling me I should be religious because it will give me hope in
hard times is true and practical. But telling me I should be your
religion because I will reap the benefits in heaven is ridiculous. Not
only is it a circular argument (believe in God because you'll go to
heaven and theres heaven because theres God etc...) but also its not
going to convince anyone who is here to discuss philosophy.

I'm tired of reading a good point by another author and having it
responded to with a blunt un-arguable point that only the new author
and people like the new author will believe.

To conclude though, I'm sick of being told to believe a certain way
because the author says I should. Its not necessary to end every post
by telling me that if I believe your God I will find the holy kingdom.
Just make your point and then finish respectfully. I don't end all my
posts by saying "and your religion is awful and you're going to hell"
do I?
David Wharton
2004-07-19 03:13:48 UTC
Permalink
***@gmail.com (Dan.B.) wrote in message news>

Give me arguments. Anything that will appeal to reason or logic is
fine.
God is love.
Satan is washington
hillary shit.

homer
Joey
2004-07-19 18:13:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan.B.
I've been reading this message board for long enough now to know that
there is a large religious community out there. I have no problem with
religion or being spiritual. I DO however have a problem with devout
religious types coming on to a philosophy forum and claiming that I
should believe in their God based on faith. This is not the place to
make claims like that. If you want to talk faith go to talk.religion.
Give me arguments. Anything that will appeal to reason or logic is
fine. Telling me I should be religious because it will give me hope in
hard times is true and practical. But telling me I should be your
religion because I will reap the benefits in heaven is ridiculous. Not
only is it a circular argument (believe in God because you'll go to
heaven and theres heaven because theres God etc...) but also its not
going to convince anyone who is here to discuss philosophy.
I'm tired of reading a good point by another author and having it
responded to with a blunt un-arguable point that only the new author
and people like the new author will believe.
To conclude though, I'm sick of being told to believe a certain way
because the author says I should. Its not necessary to end every post
by telling me that if I believe your God I will find the holy kingdom.
Just make your point and then finish respectfully. I don't end all my
posts by saying "and your religion is awful and you're going to hell"
do I?
Bravo!!! Well said!!! This goes also for those other religious
fanatics that have organized themselves under the flag of atheism.
James Cook
2004-07-24 23:31:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joey
Post by Dan.B.
I've been reading this message board for long enough now to know that
there is a large religious community out there. I have no problem with
religion or being spiritual. I DO however have a problem with devout
religious types coming on to a philosophy forum and claiming that I
should believe in their God based on faith. This is not the place to
make claims like that. If you want to talk faith go to talk.religion.
Give me arguments. Anything that will appeal to reason or logic is
fine. Telling me I should be religious because it will give me hope in
hard times is true and practical. But telling me I should be your
religion because I will reap the benefits in heaven is ridiculous. Not
only is it a circular argument (believe in God because you'll go to
heaven and theres heaven because theres God etc...) but also its not
going to convince anyone who is here to discuss philosophy.
I'm tired of reading a good point by another author and having it
responded to with a blunt un-arguable point that only the new author
and people like the new author will believe.
To conclude though, I'm sick of being told to believe a certain way
because the author says I should. Its not necessary to end every post
by telling me that if I believe your God I will find the holy kingdom.
Just make your point and then finish respectfully. I don't end all my
posts by saying "and your religion is awful and you're going to hell"
do I?
Bravo!!! Well said!!! This goes also for those other religious
fanatics that have organized themselves under the flag of atheism.
How can a religious person (fanatical or otherwise) get involved in atheism?

How have atheists "organized themselves"? Please be specific. Are there any
organization you know of an atheist can join? Also, could you please upload
a file showing us their flag?
Joey
2004-07-27 07:42:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Cook
How have atheists "organized themselves"? Please be specific. Are there any
organization you know of an atheist can join? Also, could you please upload
a file showing us their flag?
If you go to this site http://www.atheists.org/ you will see the
atheist organization and thier icon. They are also very careful to
define thier beliefs by replacing the word belief with the word
"lifestyle". Least they reveal that they are the same as the religious
zealots that they condemn, and are trying to save the world from. (and
the parking on the left is now the parking on the right.....)

I even got an e-mail from an atheist charity group. Asking for
donations to thier case. They claimed that they were kicked off of
thier server without any reason.

This was my response:

It seems to me that your main purpose of being a charity is
overshadowed by your purpose of spreading atheism. If you are truely
non-denominational then it would have sufficed to just say that you
are a charitable organization and leave it at that. As it is, by
touting that you are altruistic atheists you have instigated a
conflict between your web host and you that has nothing to do with
collecting for a charity, but more to do with each others revultions
in the others belief systems. After all, if they were openly christian
and they wanted space on your server do you think for a minute I would
believe that you would welcome them with open arms and a blind eye to
thier belief. You are no less denominational than the mormans or the
jahovah witnesses who knock on my door and beg for money so they can
force thier belief down others throats in an effort to set the world
straight. You have merely become infected with the same lunacy as them
however you have fashioned it into a different form of religion. And
neither of you have the guts to see what you truely are. I don't throw
my money away on them, nor am I going to flush it down the toilet for
your religious cause.
James Cook
2004-08-05 21:29:35 UTC
Permalink
Joey,

Thanks for the link http://www.atheists.org/ , I honestly didn't know they
existed, but from the date they give (1968), it sounds like they may have
had something to do with Madeline Murray O'Hare, the political activist who
filed the case which outlawed public school prayer (religious talk) in 1963.
She and two of her children were kidnapped and murdered in 1965. I believe
one of the surviving children had something to do with the founding of this
organization, but I don't remember the details. For her to be as successful
as she was in her own life (more successful than Mike Newdow has been to
date), she must have had a good network, at least. So your ideas that
atheists may in some way be organized, may be true, but it's not in the way
you are implying (a Religious organization).

If you look closely, you'll notice that this site is a political site and
not religious, although it does contain some ethical writing. The blurb you
mentioned discussing their philosophy (belief) is from their home page and
is as follows:

"Your petitioners are Atheists, and they define their lifestyle as follows.
An Atheist loves himself and his fellow man instead of a god. An Atheist
accepts that heaven is something for which we should work now -- here on
earth -- for all men together to enjoy. An Atheist accepts that he can get
no help through prayer, but that he must find in himself the inner
conviction and strength to meet life, to grapple with it, to subdue it and
to enjoy it. An Atheist accepts that only in a knowledge of himself and a
knowledge of his fellow man can he find the understanding that will help to
a life of fulfillment."

This is arguably more of a philosophy or a system of ethics than a belief in
a theistic sense. When a religious person speaks about belief, he is usually
talking about a supernatural concept or story. Atheists generally reject all
supernatural belief, with no other basis for belief than tradition, literary
or otherwise, with no regard to its origin. To take the starkest example,
when a preacher tells his congregation, for example, that an event happened
(say the Resurrection of Jesus) because of the will of the almighty Lord, he
may very well specify that this is a Belief, because there is no evidence
for this other than in Religion and the holy books, and yet it runs against
each individual's own experience of reality. Atheists shy away from this
type of belief and say that scientific discoveries and an individual's own
understanding of natural experience are the most efficient basis for forming
a superior ethical system.

Athiests don't go to church, aren't really likely to be more politically
organized than anyone else, even though they have causes, such as the Second
Amendment in the Bill of Rights, in which they have an interest. Describing
such interest in protecting American liberties as "religion" and "belief" is
clearly misleading and confuses the debate.
Therefore I believe it is misleading for you to try to group distinctly
theistic and atheistic ideas (which may or may not be ethical) together
under the theist "banner" of Belief. When we talk about "observing" Newton's
First Law of Motion, we don't say "we believe it". We simply observe it, and
therefore we duck and don't get the pie in the face. An atheist, when
pressed, would probably say that he is more likely to "believe" the First
Law of Motion than in the Resurrection, but that doesn't make him
"religious".

These atheists whom you detest so much, are only guilty for having responded
to you by believing that your belief in atheism was sincere, and asking for
a donation, since they thought you would be interested in continuing
separation of church and state, as they are. Imagine, for once, that some
thoughtful people other than atheists might be interested in promoting just
this American concept - the value of Religious Liberty, and the separation
of Church and State, and you might abandon your demagoguery and admit
finally, that atheists are, at least in this way, not really that different
from the best of the rest of us.
Post by Joey
Post by James Cook
How have atheists "organized themselves"? Please be specific. Are there any
organization you know of an atheist can join? Also, could you please upload
a file showing us their flag?
If you go to this site http://www.atheists.org/ you will see the
atheist organization and thier icon. They are also very careful to
define thier beliefs by replacing the word belief with the word
"lifestyle". Least they reveal that they are the same as the religious
zealots that they condemn, and are trying to save the world from. (and
the parking on the left is now the parking on the right.....)
I even got an e-mail from an atheist charity group. Asking for
donations to thier case. They claimed that they were kicked off of
thier server without any reason.
It seems to me that your main purpose of being a charity is
overshadowed by your purpose of spreading atheism. If you are truely
non-denominational then it would have sufficed to just say that you
are a charitable organization and leave it at that. As it is, by
touting that you are altruistic atheists you have instigated a
conflict between your web host and you that has nothing to do with
collecting for a charity, but more to do with each others revultions
in the others belief systems. After all, if they were openly christian
and they wanted space on your server do you think for a minute I would
believe that you would welcome them with open arms and a blind eye to
thier belief. You are no less denominational than the mormans or the
jahovah witnesses who knock on my door and beg for money so they can
force thier belief down others throats in an effort to set the world
straight. You have merely become infected with the same lunacy as them
however you have fashioned it into a different form of religion. And
neither of you have the guts to see what you truely are. I don't throw
my money away on them, nor am I going to flush it down the toilet for
your religious cause.
Joey
2004-08-12 01:13:08 UTC
Permalink
These atheists whom you detest so much, are only guilty for having
responded
Post by James Cook
to you by believing that your belief in atheism was sincere, and asking
I thought that atheism is not a belief? This is exactly the kind of
double talk that I was referring to. It fools no one except the person
who is making the comment. Atheism IS a belief, the American Atheists
IS an organized belief, I can guarantee they are tax exempt by the
same law that governs churchs, They have a purpose to spread atheism
just like the muslims have a purpose to spread thier beliefs. If it
looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck then it is a duck.
Paul Ransom Erickson
2006-07-28 04:46:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joey
Post by James Cook
How have atheists "organized themselves"? Please be specific. Are there any
organization you know of an atheist can join? Also, could you please upload
a file showing us their flag?
If you go to this site http://www.atheists.org/ you will see the
atheist organization and thier icon. They are also very careful to
define thier beliefs by replacing the word belief with the word
"lifestyle". Least they reveal that they are the same as the religious
zealots that they condemn, and are trying to save the world from. (and
the parking on the left is now the parking on the right.....)
I even got an e-mail from an atheist charity group. Asking for
donations to thier case. They claimed that they were kicked off of
thier server without any reason.
It seems to me that your main purpose of being a charity is
overshadowed by your purpose of spreading atheism. If you are truely
non-denominational then it would have sufficed to just say that you
are a charitable organization and leave it at that.
I agree with that. It is good advice for religious charities as well.


As it is, by
Post by Joey
touting that you are altruistic atheists you have instigated a
conflict between your web host and you that has nothing to do with
collecting for a charity, but more to do with each others revultions
in the others belief systems. After all, if they were openly christian
and they wanted space on your server do you think for a minute I would
believe that you would welcome them with open arms and a blind eye to
thier belief. You are no less denominational than the mormans or the
jahovah witnesses who knock on my door and beg for money so they can
force thier belief down others throats in an effort to set the world
straight. You have merely become infected with the same lunacy as them
however you have fashioned it into a different form of religion. And
neither of you have the guts to see what you truely are. I don't throw
my money away on them, nor am I going to flush it down the toilet for
your religious cause.
g***@hotmail.com
2004-08-10 16:43:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan.B.
I'm tired of reading a good point by another author and having it
responded to with a blunt un-arguable point that only the new author
and people like the new author will believe.
You said it yourself. Philosophical argument will go on forever
without God. There will be no end to all the questions you will come
up with. I agree will you? You will argue forever. Analyse what
philosophers over the ages has written. It goes around in endless
circles.

Next time a Christian tries to tell you about their religion. Think of
it this way. If you knew the world was coming to an end and you knew
how to save some lives, would you keep quiet?

With regards
Gilbert Gerber
Joey
2004-08-12 00:59:20 UTC
Permalink
The whole point of this string would be moot if everyone would be more
concerned about living by thier own beliefs instead of everyone else
living by thier directorates. Most people who force thier beliefs down
others throats don't follow those beliefs themselves and are usually
the biggest hypocrits around. As a bumper sticker i saw once said
"Dear Jesus please save me from your followers". If some one was truly
concerned about immortalizing christ in others lives instead of
immortalizing themselves, they would do so in thier actions and not
thier words. Examples: Mother teresa, father damien. Examples of those
who act in thier words and not thier deeds: Oral Roberts, Jimmy
swaggart. Now we have a new sect of religion that is just as
hypocritical, also trying to save the world from themselves instead
trying to save thier own asses from thier own arrogance and the world
from another unwanted crusade. They are known as atheists the
"unreligion" and believe me we are going to hear a whole lot more from
them in the future whether we want to or not. Just go on to the chat
sites that are dedicated to christian discussions and you will see the
atheists infiltrating conversations between believers, as if they have
no rights of thier own, calling them stupid for thier beliefs. Christ
said to pray in private, he said those who aren't against us are for
us. This excludes most christians and atheists. I happen to believe
in god, however I have my own concept of who he is and by telling me
that I have no right or reason to believe the way I do, says more to
me about how fucked up most aetheists and christians are, than who god
is or isn't. In response to your comment about the world ending and
saving others, be patient, giving, loving , long suffering and
dedicate your life to helping others and they will know and respect
your god because they know and respect you. Respect is not forced down
someone's throat it is earned! Period!
Dan.B.
2004-08-22 12:15:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joey
The whole point of this string would be moot if everyone would be more
concerned about living by thier own beliefs instead of everyone else
living by thier directorates. Most people who force thier beliefs down
others throats don't follow those beliefs themselves and are usually
the biggest hypocrits around. As a bumper sticker i saw once said
"Dear Jesus please save me from your followers". If some one was truly
concerned about immortalizing christ in others lives instead of
immortalizing themselves, they would do so in thier actions and not
thier words. Examples: Mother teresa, father damien. Examples of those
who act in thier words and not thier deeds: Oral Roberts, Jimmy
swaggart. Now we have a new sect of religion that is just as
hypocritical, also trying to save the world from themselves instead
trying to save thier own asses from thier own arrogance and the world
from another unwanted crusade. They are known as atheists the
"unreligion" and believe me we are going to hear a whole lot more from
them in the future whether we want to or not. Just go on to the chat
sites that are dedicated to christian discussions and you will see the
atheists infiltrating conversations between believers, as if they have
no rights of thier own, calling them stupid for thier beliefs. Christ
said to pray in private, he said those who aren't against us are for
us. This excludes most christians and atheists. I happen to believe
in god, however I have my own concept of who he is and by telling me
that I have no right or reason to believe the way I do, says more to
me about how fucked up most aetheists and christians are, than who god
is or isn't. In response to your comment about the world ending and
saving others, be patient, giving, loving , long suffering and
dedicate your life to helping others and they will know and respect
your god because they know and respect you. Respect is not forced down
someone's throat it is earned! Period!
I agree with Joey. An atheist has no right on a theology post board
making his case without the use of religion. Likewise a religious
fanatic posting on a philosophy board should not use religion to prove
their point. You can't convince someone that their paradigm is false
by using facts from your own. Its circular. I also respect Joey a lot
for this post since it has a lot of truth in it.

However, an atheist IS NOT whatever was posted above. An atheist as
defined by the dictionary is one who disbelieves or denies the
existence of God or gods regardless of what atheists.com might say.
This makes Atheism, not a religion, but a maxim. Since Atheism does
not follow a spiritual leader or believe in a creater/governer of the
universe it is not, by definition, religious.
g***@hotmail.com
2004-08-23 10:45:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan.B.
Post by Joey
The whole point of this string would be moot if everyone would be more
concerned about living by thier own beliefs instead of everyone else
living by thier directorates. Most people who force thier beliefs down
others throats don't follow those beliefs themselves and are usually
the biggest hypocrits around. As a bumper sticker i saw once said
"Dear Jesus please save me from your followers". If some one was truly
concerned about immortalizing christ in others lives instead of
immortalizing themselves, they would do so in thier actions and not
Ø > thier words.

I am a Christian. I also believe you are right, there are many
hypocrites. This is unfortunate. Jesus Christ is the only real
example.

Examples: Mother teresa, father damien. Examples of those
Post by Dan.B.
Post by Joey
who act in thier words and not thier deeds: Oral Roberts, Jimmy
swaggart. Now we have a new sect of religion that is just as
hypocritical, also trying to save the world from themselves instead
trying to save thier own asses from thier own arrogance and the world
from another unwanted crusade. They are known as atheists the
"unreligion" and believe me we are going to hear a whole lot more from
them in the future whether we want to or not. Just go on to the chat
sites that are dedicated to christian discussions and you will see the
atheists infiltrating conversations between believers, as if they have
no rights of thier own, calling them stupid for thier beliefs. Christ
Ø > said to pray in private,

Jesus also told Christain to be a light to this world, for a light
should be placed on a table and not under a bucket.

he said those who aren't against us are for
Post by Dan.B.
Post by Joey
us. This excludes most christians and atheists. I happen to believe
Ø > in god, however I have my own concept of who he is

God is who He is. What we think we have figured out by ourselves does
not change anything about who God really is. Fortunately we did
receive the bible and His spirit to guide us in knowing better.

and by telling me
Post by Dan.B.
Post by Joey
that I have no right or reason to believe the way I do, says more to
me about how fucked up most aetheists and christians are, than who god
is or isn't. In response to your comment about the world ending and
saving others, be patient, giving, loving , long suffering and
dedicate your life to helping others and they will know and respect
your god because they know and respect you. Respect is not forced down
Ø > someone's throat it is earned! Period!

It means nothing to me if you respect me or not. By knowing God our
hearts change and we see people in a different way. We can’t
pretend to know God and hate our brother.
Post by Dan.B.
I agree with Joey. An atheist has no right on a theology post board
making his case without the use of religion. Likewise a religious
fanatic posting on a philosophy board should not use religion to prove
their point. You can't convince someone that their paradigm is false
by using facts from your own. Its circular. I also respect Joey a lot
Ø for this post since it has a lot of truth in it.

Yes it is circular, in philosophical sense. Talking about God does not
always add up philosophically; because we cant prove Gods existence
technically. Fortunate our inability to prove anything philosophically
does not change anything. You cant prove God and you cant even
disprove God, you cant really prove anything, and will never be able
to prove anything (provide a flawless argument that is technically
sound) for as long as you live. Not in a philosophical sense.
Philosophy is circular. God said that there would come an end to
knowledge and the writing of many books. All life’s questions
will be answered in death.
Post by Dan.B.
However, an atheist IS NOT whatever was posted above. An atheist as
defined by the dictionary is one who disbelieves or denies the
existence of God or gods regardless of what atheists.com might say.
This makes Atheism, not a religion, but a maxim. Since Atheism does
not follow a spiritual leader or believe in a creater/governer of the
universe it is not, by definition, religious.
Blood Raven
2004-08-26 20:29:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by g***@hotmail.com
Post by Dan.B.
Post by Joey
The whole point of this string would be moot if everyone would be more
concerned about living by thier own beliefs instead of everyone else
living by thier directorates. Most people who force thier beliefs down
others throats don't follow those beliefs themselves and are usually
the biggest hypocrits around. As a bumper sticker i saw once said
"Dear Jesus please save me from your followers". If some one was truly
concerned about immortalizing christ in others lives instead of
immortalizing themselves, they would do so in thier actions and not
Ø > thier words.
I am a Christian. I also believe you are right, there are many
hypocrites. This is unfortunate. Jesus Christ is the only real
example.
Examples: Mother teresa, father damien. Examples of those
Post by Dan.B.
Post by Joey
who act in thier words and not thier deeds: Oral Roberts, Jimmy
swaggart. Now we have a new sect of religion that is just as
hypocritical, also trying to save the world from themselves instead
trying to save thier own asses from thier own arrogance and the world
from another unwanted crusade. They are known as atheists the
"unreligion" and believe me we are going to hear a whole lot more from
them in the future whether we want to or not. Just go on to the chat
sites that are dedicated to christian discussions and you will see the
atheists infiltrating conversations between believers, as if they have
no rights of thier own, calling them stupid for thier beliefs. Christ
Ø > said to pray in private,
Jesus also told Christain to be a light to this world, for a light
should be placed on a table and not under a bucket.
he said those who aren't against us are for
Post by Dan.B.
Post by Joey
us. This excludes most christians and atheists. I happen to believe
Ø > in god, however I have my own concept of who he is
God is who He is. What we think we have figured out by ourselves does
not change anything about who God really is. Fortunately we did
receive the bible and His spirit to guide us in knowing better.
and by telling me
Post by Dan.B.
Post by Joey
that I have no right or reason to believe the way I do, says more to
me about how fucked up most aetheists and christians are, than who god
is or isn't. In response to your comment about the world ending and
saving others, be patient, giving, loving , long suffering and
dedicate your life to helping others and they will know and respect
your god because they know and respect you. Respect is not forced down
Ø > someone's throat it is earned! Period!
It means nothing to me if you respect me or not. By knowing God our
hearts change and we see people in a different way. We can’t
pretend to know God and hate our brother.
Post by Dan.B.
I agree with Joey. An atheist has no right on a theology post board
making his case without the use of religion. Likewise a religious
fanatic posting on a philosophy board should not use religion to prove
their point. You can't convince someone that their paradigm is false
by using facts from your own. Its circular. I also respect Joey a lot
Ø for this post since it has a lot of truth in it.
Yes it is circular, in philosophical sense. Talking about God does not
always add up philosophically; because we cant prove Gods existence
technically. Fortunate our inability to prove anything philosophically
does not change anything. You cant prove God and you cant even
disprove God, you cant really prove anything, and will never be able
to prove anything (provide a flawless argument that is technically
sound) for as long as you live. Not in a philosophical sense.
Philosophy is circular. God said that there would come an end to
knowledge and the writing of many books. All life’s questions
will be answered in death.
Post by Dan.B.
However, an atheist IS NOT whatever was posted above. An atheist as
defined by the dictionary is one who disbelieves or denies the
existence of God or gods regardless of what atheists.com might say.
This makes Atheism, not a religion, but a maxim. Since Atheism does
not follow a spiritual leader or believe in a creater/governer of the
universe it is not, by definition, religious.
Some achive peace in believeing. Some achive peace in not believeing.
Some achive peace in convincing others. It's human nature.
What it comes down to is a matter of manners. A long time ago I look
up in the dictionary what a gentleman means. And it means one who make
the people around him feel comfortable. Marketing one's beliefs, when
done right, do not have to affend others. Plus it's fun.
I am an atheist who like Christians.
Joey
2004-08-26 20:56:49 UTC
Permalink
there are many
Post by g***@hotmail.com
hypocrites. This is unfortunate.
This is that unfortunate as long as you realize we are both in that
catagory too. To realize we are not perfect and to try to do the best
we can is the whole key. When we place our knowledge over others and
say we are set apart from others and special that is the true
hypocrisy. This is putting ones self in god's position and above all
the rest and this is the worst sin.
Post by g***@hotmail.com
Jesus also told Christain to be a light to this world, for a light
should be placed on a table and not under a bucket.
Christ advocated displaying your faith in your actions and not your
words . He was the greatest example of that. Even your deeds are
worthless if they are not from your heart. This was his main gripe
about the pharasees and why he said that you are not saved by your
actions alone. What christians mostly seem to ignore is that the main
focus of christ's life was to honor god by sacrificing for his people
and putting them before his own needs. "For there is NO GREATER love
than when a man lays down his life for another" This means putting
others before yourself even in the worst of circumstances. If people
worked for this end, we would ALL have what we need. We are all one
body to christ and if one cell in your body does not have the body as
it's main purpose it becomes rampant and cancerous and an illness to
the body and must be cut out to save the body's life.
Post by g***@hotmail.com
God is who He is. What we think we have figured out by ourselves does
not change anything about who God really is.
And a father is many different things to all of his children and one
child does not have the right to tell the other what type of gift he
should give his father because the father is not concerned about the
gift but the love that gave it to him. Ever go to a house where a
parent has crudely drawn pictures on their refridgerator that were
given to them by thier child? They aren't displaying the talents of a
great artist, they are proudly displaying the love by which the
picture was given to them. And god's love is no less than thiers.


someone's throat it is earned! Period!
Post by g***@hotmail.com
It means nothing to me if you respect me or not. By knowing God our
hearts change and we see people in a different way. We can’t
pretend to know God and hate our brother.
And how much love do you have for your brother if his respect is no
concern of yours? And Christ said "What so ever you do to the LEAST
of my brothers that you do unto me"
Post by g***@hotmail.com
Post by Dan.B.
However, an atheist IS NOT whatever was posted above. An atheist as
defined by the dictionary is one who disbelieves or denies the
existence of God or gods regardless of what atheists.com might say.
This makes Atheism, not a religion, but a maxim. Since Atheism does
not follow a spiritual leader or believe in a creater/governer of the
universe it is not, by definition, religious.
This is true for most atheists but the vocal ones are the exception.
For if there is no god then there is no argument. And if there is, the
whole argument is about religion or the lack of religion and that
makes it a religious argument and a religious cause.
g***@hotmail.com
2004-08-27 13:52:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by g***@hotmail.com
there are many
Post by g***@hotmail.com
hypocrites. This is unfortunate.
This is that unfortunate as long as you realize we are both in that
catagory too. To realize we are not perfect and to try to do the best
we can is the whole key. When we place our knowledge over others and
say we are set apart from others and special that is the true
hypocrisy. This is putting ones self in god's position and above all
the rest and this is the worst sin.
I did not say, that I am faultless. I do not put myself on a pedestal
either.
Post by g***@hotmail.com
Post by g***@hotmail.com
Jesus also told Christain to be a light to this world, for a light
should be placed on a table and not under a bucket.
Christ advocated displaying your faith in your actions and not your
words . He was the greatest example of that. Even your deeds are
worthless if they are not from your heart. This was his main gripe
about the pharasees and why he said that you are not saved by your
actions alone. What christians mostly seem to ignore is that the main
focus of christ's life was to honor god by sacrificing for his people
and putting them before his own needs. "For there is NO GREATER love
than when a man lays down his life for another" This means putting
others before yourself even in the worst of circumstances. If people
worked for this end, we would ALL have what we need. We are all one
body to christ and if one cell in your body does not have the body as
it's main purpose it becomes rampant and cancerous and an illness to
the body and must be cut out to save the body's life.
I agree, but we have to talk about God and tell people about God.
Post by g***@hotmail.com
Post by g***@hotmail.com
God is who He is. What we think we have figured out by ourselves does
not change anything about who God really is.
And a father is many different things to all of his children and one
child does not have the right to tell the other what type of gift he
should give his father because the father is not concerned about the
gift but the love that gave it to him. Ever go to a house where a
parent has crudely drawn pictures on their refridgerator that were
given to them by thier child? They aren't displaying the talents of a
great artist, they are proudly displaying the love by which the
picture was given to them. And god's love is no less than thiers.
I still say God is who he is. Our needs have nothing to do with who
God is, but we do experience God in different ways. I see what you are
saying about the children, but God is still who He is. If children
only ask for candy, God sometimes says no, because eating lots of
candy is bad for us. If God is only a god of making you happy on
earth, then that is not really who God is. What others say about Him
does not change who He is. God also told Moses, “I am who I
am”. God is who He is.
Post by g***@hotmail.com
someone's throat it is earned! Period!
Post by g***@hotmail.com
It means nothing to me if you respect me or not. By knowing God our
hearts change and we see people in a different way. We can’t
pretend to know God and hate our brother.
And how much love do you have for your brother if his respect is no
concern of yours? And Christ said "What so ever you do to the LEAST
of my brothers that you do unto me"
I can love my brother without his respect. God said love your brother,
whether your brother loves you should have nothing to do with it.

regards
Gilbert Gerber
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