Discussion:
The BEAUTY OF A FREE COUNTRY
(too old to reply)
Joseph H
2004-09-09 19:41:27 UTC
Permalink
The beauty of a free country ought to be that intelligent
men and women are allowed to come to the fore and that these men and
women create and perpetuate a society where past lives and past
achievements are valued and where current lives are afforded the best
care possible.

The REALITY of your free country is that while a cohort of caring
people - teachers, writers, etc - strive to inculcate these values a
far more potent minority - politicians, the media, money people -
abuse and decry them at every turn.

Until such time as the former group once again finds the confidence
and the power and A NEW VOICE with which to confront these abusers
nothing will change.

The Advent of Humanisation offers such a voice.

Joseph H

www.humanisation.org
Greig
2004-09-16 15:14:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joseph H
The beauty of a free country ought to be that intelligent
men and women are allowed to come to the fore and that these men and
women create and perpetuate a society where past lives and past
achievements are valued and where current lives are afforded the best
care possible.
The REALITY of your free country is that while a cohort of caring
people - teachers, writers, etc - strive to inculcate these values a
far more potent minority - politicians, the media, money people -
abuse and decry them at every turn.
Until such time as the former group once again finds the confidence
and the power and A NEW VOICE with which to confront these abusers
nothing will change.
The Advent of Humanisation offers such a voice.
Joseph H
www.humanisation.org
i aint human
Joseph H
2004-09-18 16:21:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Greig
Post by Joseph H
The beauty of a free country ought to be that intelligent
men and women are allowed to come to the fore and that these men and
women create and perpetuate a society where past lives and past
achievements are valued and where current lives are afforded the best
care possible.
The reality of your free country is that while a cohort of caring
people - teachers, writers, etc - strive to inculcate these values a
far more potent minority - politicians, the media, money people -
abuse and decry them at every turn.
Until such time as the former group once again finds the confidence
and the power and a new voice with which to confront these abusers
nothing will change.
The Advent of Humanisation offers such a voice.
Joseph H
www.humanisation.org
i aint human
Know the feeing
New Jersey
2004-09-25 15:24:34 UTC
Permalink
When one really pay's attention "there are" all kinds of writer &
teachers and not only the one's from this "traditional educational
system"..I remember years ago meeting a school teacher that was admired
greatly for her kind of teaching by the school facility..She was more
teaching the idea's of "general semantics" but not openly admitting it
to her superiors that she said would have condoned it..Labling ourselves
for this literal political society system IMHO does more harm than
good..I used to teach in the business world comprehensive conversational
reading with no academic society requirements..After retirement tried to
teach in a County College, was turned down for I didn't have their kind
of teaching requirements .. I now more walk among strangers helping them
see the good in themselves.. ..schimme,N.J..
Jack
2004-09-18 15:37:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joseph H
The beauty of a free country ought to be that intelligent
men and women are allowed to come to the fore and that these men and
women create and perpetuate a society where past lives and past
achievements are valued and where current lives are afforded the best
care possible.
The REALITY of your free country is that while a cohort of caring
people - teachers, writers, etc - strive to inculcate these values a
far more potent minority - politicians, the media, money people -
abuse and decry them at every turn.
---------8<-----

The Reality is actually that most things are completed due to ego.
People strive for recognition, to have their name attached to
something nthat will bring a form of immortality. Without this, (Good
or Bad as it is), people will stop trying to achieve. Unfortunately,
it's this same drive that prevents your cause from ever becoming
reality.
drew
2004-10-01 14:44:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jack
Post by Joseph H
The beauty of a free country ought to be that intelligent
men and women are allowed to come to the fore and that these men and
women create and perpetuate a society where past lives and past
achievements are valued and where current lives are afforded the best
care possible.
The REALITY of your free country is that while a cohort of caring
people - teachers, writers, etc - strive to inculcate these values a
far more potent minority - politicians, the media, money people -
abuse and decry them at every turn.
---------8<-----
The Reality is actually that most things are completed due to ego.
People strive for recognition, to have their name attached to
something nthat will bring a form of immortality. Without this, (Good
or Bad as it is), people will stop trying to achieve. Unfortunately,
it's this same drive that prevents your cause from ever becoming
reality.
Many are motivated by ego but the best are motivated by something
bigger than ego. You can call it love or beauty or the good or
whatever. There is something wrong with accomplishments that are
attached with ego. Ego is written all over the completed work. It
diminishes the accomplishment and it diminishes the reward.

Until ego is sublimated there is no hope for valuable contribution.
Those who act solely for recognition, for ego, those people and their
accomplishments are expendible.
Joseph H
2004-10-01 19:35:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by drew
Post by Jack
Post by Joseph H
The beauty of a free country ought to be that intelligent
men and women are allowed to come to the fore and that these men and
women create and perpetuate a society where past lives and past
achievements are valued and where current lives are afforded the best
care possible.
The REALITY of your free country is that while a cohort of caring
people - teachers, writers, etc - strive to inculcate these values a
far more potent minority - politicians, the media, money people -
abuse and decry them at every turn.
---------8<-----
The Reality is actually that most things are completed due to ego.
People strive for recognition, to have their name attached to
something nthat will bring a form of immortality. Without this, (Good
or Bad as it is), people will stop trying to achieve. Unfortunately,
it's this same drive that prevents your cause from ever becoming
reality.
Many are motivated by ego but the best are motivated by something
bigger than ego. You can call it love or beauty or the good or
whatever. There is something wrong with accomplishments that are
attached with ego. Ego is written all over the completed work. It
diminishes the accomplishment and it diminishes the reward.
Until ego is sublimated there is no hope for valuable contribution.
Those who act solely for recognition, for ego, those people and their
accomplishments are expendible.
Joseph H replies:

Are things that clear-cut? I would say that many magnificant
achievements are heavily linked with ego - sublimated, maybe, but
there nonetheless. Surely the wish to impress or be liked or loved is
fuindamental to effort? Anyway, all my notions of a human future
incorporate the existence of ego. It runs like ivy through all our
hopes and dreams.

Thanks for posting.

Joseph H
www.humanisation.org
dash riprock
2004-10-02 21:07:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joseph H
Are things that clear-cut? I would say that many magnificant
achievements are heavily linked with ego - sublimated, maybe, but
there nonetheless. Surely the wish to impress or be liked or loved is
fuindamental to effort? Anyway, all my notions of a human future
incorporate the existence of ego. It runs like ivy through all our
hopes and dreams.
Thanks for posting.
Joseph H
www.humanisation.org
Read Atlas Shruged by Ayn Rand. This will answer your question.
Joseph H
2004-10-03 10:59:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by dash riprock
Read Atlas Shruged by Ayn Rand. This will answer your question
Please tell me what Ayn Rand said - in a nutshell.
Post by dash riprock
Post by Joseph H
Joseph H
www.humanisation.org
.
drew
2004-10-04 16:43:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joseph H
Post by drew
Post by Jack
Post by Joseph H
The beauty of a free country ought to be that intelligent
men and women are allowed to come to the fore and that these men and
women create and perpetuate a society where past lives and past
achievements are valued and where current lives are afforded the best
care possible.
The REALITY of your free country is that while a cohort of caring
people - teachers, writers, etc - strive to inculcate these values a
far more potent minority - politicians, the media, money people -
abuse and decry them at every turn.
---------8<-----
The Reality is actually that most things are completed due to ego.
People strive for recognition, to have their name attached to
something nthat will bring a form of immortality. Without this, (Good
or Bad as it is), people will stop trying to achieve. Unfortunately,
it's this same drive that prevents your cause from ever becoming
reality.
Many are motivated by ego but the best are motivated by something
bigger than ego. You can call it love or beauty or the good or
whatever. There is something wrong with accomplishments that are
attached with ego. Ego is written all over the completed work. It
diminishes the accomplishment and it diminishes the reward.
Are things that clear-cut? I would say that many magnificant
achievements are heavily linked with ego
I agree. Great works of art, architecture, music; even those who
serve others such as surgeons and teachers may have healthy egos
motivating them.

-
Surely the wish to impress or be liked or loved is
Post by Joseph H
fuindamental to effort?
I think that the desire to be liked and loved is fundamental to human
existence. I think the wish to impress is probably an immature
character trait that one loses when one is convinced of one's own
self-worth. Otherwise, I am concerned that the only acts are those
that are conspicuously showy. Those that serve the greatest good are
less likely to be so obviously impressive to others yet require the
greatest commitment of effort. The most difficult thing is to act in
a selfless manner. I think that the most difficult acts are the most
rare and the most valuable.


Anyway, all my notions of a human future
Post by Joseph H
incorporate the existence of ego. It runs like ivy through all our
hopes and dreams.
My hopes for the future of humanity involve humans acting in spite of
their egos, not because of them.

Drew.
Joseph H
2004-10-04 22:32:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by drew
My hopes for the future of humanity involve humans acting in spite of
their egos, not because of them.
No, not in spite. That's too tough, Drew. Allow ego to exist - as long
as it doesnt go manic. Best wishes.
Joseph H

www.humanaisation.org
2ndSight
2004-10-03 17:27:11 UTC
Permalink
Joseph, good luck selling your book. But beyond that, thanks
for the message below.

I don't know if you have all the answers,
but you're asking good questions.

I think there might be some other answers, or additional answers, to
"humanisation" in reply to the problem you pose.

For example, one essential for a free society is for many or most of
its citizens to be inquiring and skeptical of the easy explanations
offered by the politicians, media people etc. that you decry.

Said intellectual skepticism can either come from an altruistic
love of "truth" in some abstract sense, or from the selfishness of
the individual brain saying that it respects where logic and curiosity
are leading it.

As Bob Dylan once wrote, "a question in your nerves is
lit/and you know there is no answer fit/to satisfy you or make you
quit/
because you know it's not he or she or it/that you belong to."

If you're a self-respecting individual with a brain and the curiosity
to
use it, in short, you're going to test the statements of the
politicians -- all
politicians, from all across the political spectrum -- to see if they
make
sense.

You're not going to accept the pronouncements of what Orwell
called the "Ministry of Truth," no matter whether it's run by
Communists
or Republicans or Christians or Jews or Muslims or atheists for their
own ideological benefit, because your own brain tells you to keep
looking,
keep asking questions.

Another essential of the free society and the good society, I will
argue,
is a recognition that it IS a society; it's bigger than any individual
achievement. At the least, if you're a fanatical Ayn Rand supporter
(as I used to be), you have to recognize that the freedom you cherish
is sustained by
the assent of other people, and supported within certain social
institutions
and social frameworks. Or as Aristotle put it, that human beings are
"POLITICAL" animals, first and foremost. We normally function in
groups.

Or if you're a Christian mystic, like the famous
poet John Donne, or an eastern mystic, like some LSD pioneers in the
1960s,
you may come to recognize that we all are interconnected, that in a
moral sense, "no man is an island." And that in a very practical and
material sense, all "men" (i.e. human beings, including women) are
nothing at all if we are separated from the nonhuman environment, from
access to air, water, food, nitrogen, carbon, and solar energy.

There's more to the good society than this, of course. But keeping an
open, inquiring mind, respecting your own questions and insights and
doubts, and recognizing your interdependence with your fellow citizens
and the planet are several of its key foundations.
Post by Joseph H
The beauty of a free country ought to be that intelligent
men and women are allowed to come to the fore and that these men and
women create and perpetuate a society where past lives and past
achievements are valued and where current lives are afforded the best
care possible.
The REALITY of your free country is that while a cohort of caring
people - teachers, writers, etc - strive to inculcate these values a
far more potent minority - politicians, the media, money people -
abuse and decry them at every turn.
Until such time as the former group once again finds the confidence
and the power and A NEW VOICE with which to confront these abusers
nothing will change.
The Advent of Humanisation offers such a voice.
Joseph H
www.humanisation.org
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